Lessons in Great Storytelling with Khe Hy

In this episode of The Inspire Podcast, Bart speaks with Khe Hy about the power of stories and how leaders can unlock their inner storyteller. Bart learns how Khe left a successful career on Wall Street and turned his self-reflection into a highly read newsletter on career, money, life, and a wide range of other topics. Khe explains why so many stories suck, what qualities make for engaging stories, and how to put storytelling into action with authenticity, vulnerability and intention. Tune in for practical tips and inspiring insights to help you harness the art of storytelling.

Learn more about Khe at https://radreads.co and connect with him on LinkedIn and TikTok.

Show Notes

0:43 Welcoming Khe
2:09 Storytelling ability
2:40 Khe tells his story
6:21 What led him to quit his job?
7:59 The Hedonic adaptation
9:41 Entrepreneurs have this messed up wiring
10:09 Designing life from first principles
12:08 Early writing successes
12:30 What's your "number"?
13:08 The fisherman and the banker
14:30 Writing personal articles on the block
16:11 Story about losing hair
16:57 Storytelling is key for leaders - so why do they often suck at it?
21:19 Why are business leaders bad at storytelling?
22:08 Emotional resonance
22:26 Things that make a good story
24:32 Conflict
25:04 3 things to become a better storyteller
28:07 Open your eyes
28:19 Stories are everywhere
29:04 Bitcoin story
30:32 Go into your own life to find stories
32:38 Practice telling stories
33:39 It's really fun!
35:19 Have a diverse set of inputs
35:44 Ask ChatGPT
38:11 Profiles of famous people have good stories
39:35 Storytelling is a skill
40:16 How to find out more about Khe

Show Transcript

Khe Hy: When you look at the world through the lens of stories, stories are everywhere.

Bart Egnal: Welcome to the Inspire Podcast, where we examine what it takes to intentionally inspire. I'm your host, Bart Egnall, President and CEO of The Humphrey Group. And if you've ever asked yourself, how can you develop an authentic leadership presence?

Or how can you tell stories that Have people hanging off every word. Well, then this podcast is for you. And it's not just for executives. This is a podcast for anyone who wants to influence and inspire others in their work, but also in their life.

So my guest on today's episode of the Inspire podcast is Kay He. And Kay is the founder of Rad Reads. It's a, it's a newsletter. I think, I mean, I should say it's a weekly newsletter. It's been a weekly newsletter. Until now, we can talk more about that. But it is an incredible [00:01:00] newsletter. It's how you and I got connected.

Someone sent it to me and she said, you know, you've got to read this newsletter. Someone's written this 40 things I learned at 40. I read it. I reread it. And I reached out to you, I'm like, so much of what you said has resonated, but you're not just a purveyor of great newsletter, you're a podcaster, you create video, you have a coaching business, and most importantly, you are a reformed careerist who left ten, about ten years ago, I think?

Ten years. A job at BlackRock where you were one of the world's or the firm's youngest managing directors making millions of dollars and you walked away from it all and you've started this newsletter all so that you could reach this moment of being on my podcast. So with that, K, welcome to the Inspire podcast.

Khe Hy: Thank you, Bart. It's been a pleasure to get to know you over the past couple of months and a lifelong friendship that is budding. Likewise. Yeah. I think,

Bart Egnal: You've got such a fascinating story. We're going to get to it, but I think. At the heart of [00:02:00] why, you know, we kind of talk, what are we going to talk about in this pod?

You know, we're in the leadership communication business. And what we really settled on is that you're an incredible storyteller. I think your ability to tell stories that resonate. And without even the intention of having built a following has led to this incredible following. And I know now for our clients more than ever, the ability to tell authentic, compelling stories is a foundational leadership skill.

So that's the kind of tagline, why I want to have you on to kind of unlock your secrets of storytelling. But maybe before we get to there, you can tell us a story. So tell people listening who don't know you about your journey that led you to starting

Khe Hy: RadReads. Well, thank you. And it's so funny to be, you know, labeled as a storyteller ‘cause I'm a left brain engineer, computer science, major numbers guy.

But I accept it and I, and I take it. So thank you. I I'll start with, with a story. I think when I [00:03:00] was. 10 or 11 years old, I went to one of my, like, nerdy guy friends, um, child of, I'm a child of immigrants, grew up in New York City, my parents are Cambodian, and I, I went to my friend, I'm like, hey, um, if I don't ever have a girlfriend or meet a wife, do you think I can adopt a kid?

And my friend's like, dude, that's just weird, man. Shut up. There's like an this is what I said as an 11 year old. And I think that reflecting back on that, I was like, I knew that I wanted to like find love. I was scared that I would never find it. And so I was already planning, making contingency plans at 11. Like this is well before the internet. It's a very advanced plan.

Bart Egnal: Had you, had you gotten a kiss yet at that point?

Khe Hy: Oh, no, no, I, I got to second base on the summer of high school after high school ended. But

Bart Egnal: you knew you were goal oriented even at that age.

Khe Hy: Yeah. But really, I mean, I think this is an important thread through all of my stories was like, there was this sadness and fear [00:04:00] at a very young age.

So it's like, what if this dream, and really it was like a dream of like, just finding, like being loved. Um, what if this dream never materializes for me? Can I, like, plan around that, right? And that plan quickly metastasized into, well, let's just make as much money as possible. Because people who have that A natural link.

Exactly. People who have that seem to, you know, when you're 11 and your parents are immigrants, you're just like, oh, like, Joey's dad is a lawyer and he has a house in the Hamptons and he just seems really happy because he drives, you know, Alexis, and so to make a long story short, I became extremely ambitious, very entrepreneurial, very obsessive about a success writ large, took me to an Ivy League school, which took me to a bank on Wall Street, which basically kicked off this very intense 15 year Wall Street career.

One of the things that I joke [00:05:00] about is I think that over my 15 Your career on wall street. I did 5, 200 networking meetings. Wow. Like just to give you a flavor. And that's on top of your, that's on top of your job. That's on top of a 12 hour a day, 12 to 14 hour a day job. And so even now where I'm semi retired, I still probably network.

And by networking, I just mean meeting interesting people. Either I want to learn from them. They want to learn from me or it's mutual exchange. Probably still do like seven zoom meetings. Networking meetings per week, and I'm at this point. I'm semi retired. So, um, so, yeah, so you just like really intense Wall Street period.

Like you said, I got, um, you know, right. Good place, right time. Things saw the hard work kind of all coalesced the intersection of preparation meeting opportunity. You know, that's I had good, good fortune. And at 35, I was, you know, feeling I had this, I call it the pebble in my shoe where you have like something lodged in your shoe and it's kind of annoying.

It's like a low grade anxiety, [00:06:00] but it's not annoying enough to like stop, take off your shoe, diagnose it, take it out, relace it, and you're just like, I'm just going to keep walking. Can't be that bad. And for some divine act, I, you know, I was just like, no, I don't want to be 35 years old walking through life with this kind of low grade anxiety of what my life could be.

So I quit. I had, you know, 18 months, two years of savings where I could just kind of I just want to stop before

Bart Egnal: we, to that moment. Was there, was there one thing? Because you had the pebble and you said, well, I didn't mind. But then you did, so was there, was there a moment? Was there a slow awakening? Like what, what led you to the decision?

Khe Hy: There were, I, I think that there, there was a, you know, there's this phrase like, I went broke very slowly then all of a sudden. How did you go, how did you go bankrupt very slowly then all at once? Exactly. And so the very slowly were like kind of all these like little warning [00:07:00] signs like a chunk of my hair fell off, like I had, like, not like a, like, I have a bald spot too, but like alopecia from, which is like a stress induced, you know, thing where they inject your, your head with cortisol to like watch hair grow back.

That was one. Um, I saw a lot, I kind of was always walking around and I grew up in New York city in the eighties. So I'm used to walking around with your head on a swivel of like, just being very alert to threats around you. Yeah. But I just was walking around with my, like, people were always trying to knife me, um, because I was, you know, really successful and ascending.

So politically I was always kind of watching my back. Like metaphorically knifing. Metaphorically, yeah. When I was younger, people tried to actually knife me. Right, and you upgraded to the politics of knifing. To eye banking knifing. Exactly. Um, so that was it. I observed some Bad behavior that crossed the line of ethics in my mind that was just kind of brushed under the carpet.

But really what it was part was that, um, I [00:08:00] experienced the, um, the hedonic adaptation. So, you know, I describe it like the first time I got stoned, I was 18 years old and I just took one hit. And then this factory in front of me, I was sitting on the banks of the East river and it just turned into one of these star Wars kind of like super trooper type things.

And that never happened again, smoking pot, because, you know, you need more just to maintain. And so what happens, I would get these bonuses, it'd be like 98 percent of my compensation would land in my bank account in one day. There was one year where I made more money in that one payment than my dad made in his entire career.

And my dad was middle class, like a UN, United Nations employee, auditor. And it was like, cool. I would usually to go treat myself, like buy myself a nice coat or something, or a nice pair of jeans. And then I'd be like, okay, now what? I would just invest in the stock market. [00:09:00] And then, and then I realized that it was, it was, and I know that we're in a time where, you know, a lot of people are, are struggling, so it might sound insensitive in saying this.

And I was just getting this money and it just didn't, it didn't change me and it didn't change my sense of wellbeing. And I, again, that was where I think that divine intervention was like, there was a voice that's like, are you really? Going to do this. I mean, I was 35, I could do this for another, that for another 25 years.

Right. Are you, are you really going to do this for another 25 years? And I'm like, Hey, you owe it to yourself to, to try something else. And I think that's where, you know, you're an entrepreneur, as well as I think entrepreneurs have this kind of like a little bit of a messed up wiring in their brains where, um, rationality doesn't like fully apply to them.

And so it wasn't a rational decision at the time, but I viewed it more like an entrepreneur of like risk and reward, [00:10:00] where if I left, I could always come back. I'd be a little embarrassed, you know, like the crisis, you know, but I didn't burn any bridges. And so, and that was 10 years ago. And, and I just went on this kind of random internet adventure.

Of writing really just a lot of writing which then evolved into podcasting and YouTube and tech talk and things like that. And now you're writing a book and now leading to, to a book and it's early in its infancy and, um, and yeah, just really kind of. Living this kind of really, like, I designed my life from first principles, everything from how I wanted to show up as a father, what I wanted to do for work, how I wanted to spend my free time, how much I wanted to sleep, um, how spirituality played a role in my life.

Well, being who I wanted to spend time with, I, I really designed it from first principles and it didn't happen overnight, but again, it happened kind of very gradually. And then all of a sudden I'm like, wow, 10 years later, like it's [00:11:00] Tuesday. I've served five hours this week. I love it. And on Saturday I was, I went on a psychedelic journey, assisted journey with my wife.

Um, and we were, you know, like. Seeing ourselves in a different sphere of existence and like, and now I'm in a podcast talking about here. We are here.

Bart Egnal: This is so fascinating I mean you two things that stand out to me The first is, you know, we start your story with being this 11 year old who is hoping for love and making backup plans and then deciding that wealth a Humiliating wealth is really the path kind of to that happiness and then realizing fast forward the 35 that you It hasn't delivered on its promise and setting out to then become a writer.

And I, and I think, you know, be, you be, you set out to write, to reflect on what you want to do, as we've talked about, but not to become a writer, you've just happened to become an actual rare. And so I want to go into that early phase because I think, you know, we talk about going viral, you know, and I know [00:12:00] you get questions from people, Oh, you know, how do I become a thought leader?

So what kind of stories did you write and What were the ones that really caught fire for people?

Khe Hy: The stories that, when I think back, one of the first things that I remember writing was about the number. Right? And so everyone has the number. Fire number, like the early retirement number. And so I would go around, um, when I had left Wall Street, I would go around and people were like, Oh, did you hit your number?

Bart Egnal: And so the number meaning this is the amount of money you need in your bank account to say, I'm out. Exactly.

Khe Hy: Right. And some people call you F some people call it F you money. Um, some people call it the magic number, the early retirement number. But really it's like, if you, the way it works is if you take, if you assume like the rate of interest, It was, you know, like say the interest rates, like 4 percent on a bank account.

Then it's like, you [00:13:00] take your spending and you divide by 0. 4, 0. 4. And like, you know, that's, that's your, that's your numbers. So that's what you need to live on. And so very early, I started writing about the number and I stumbled upon the story of, um, the fishermen and the banker. So there's this wealthy banker who goes out to Mexico and he, and, um, on vacation with his family and he goes out to buy fish to cook for his family.

And he meets this fisherman and the fisherman sells him this fish. And he's talking to the fisherman and he's like, Oh, so like, um, what do you, what do you like to do? He's like, well, you know, I wake up, you're like, I don't set an alarm. I'll go out on my boat nearing sunrise. I'll, I'll fish. And then I come home and I play the guitar a little bit.

I have a, you know, have a glass of wine with my friends and spend some time with my kids and I ain't go to bed. It's like, Oh, okay, cool. Banker takes the fish back. He cooks it with his family at his fancy villa. It's like the most delicious thing. He's ever, um, he's, he's ever tasted, it goes back to the fishermen the next day.

And he's like, I have an idea for you. Have you [00:14:00] heard of growth equity? And the fishermen's like no, he's like, okay, here's what we're going to do. I'm going to give you some money and then you're going to get five boats. Then we're going to take the five boats and then we're going to take all the fish and then we're going to sell it and we're going to ship in all this.

And then you've got millions and millions of dollars. And if, and the fishermen looks like so confused. And the banker goes, he's like, yeah, and then you could wake up and you could, um, spend time with your kids. You could play the guitar and have a glass of wine with your friends and then you could fish.

And so it just, it captured this moment of like, everyone's always kind of waiting for the, like this payoff in this future date. But like, I would tell people, are you the fishermen or are you the banker? Right. And they tended to be more the banker, but they wanted to be the fishermen. Right. And they saw the tension between the two.

And so instead of being like. [00:15:00] My number was 2 million. My number was 5 million. And it's like, look at the tension between these two people. And, and that parable is I mean, it's used all like, I did not come up with it. It's used in tons of self help books. But again, it, instead of trying to tell people like, well, the number is flawed because you have to think about inflation and taxes, and then you have to calculate your actuarial lifespan and like all that.

Like that stuff, just like. It goes over people's head. Right? Um, but here you're like, there's a tension here and I think that's what it taught me about good stories is there's like a, there's like a tension in, in the moment.

Bart Egnal: And I also think the other thing in the story is that you have always, when I read, when I read your blog, And everyone listening should subscribe to it because it's so it's quick.

It's easy. And most importantly, I think you put yourself in it.

And so I think, you know, my, I know that when you started writing, it was your own journey into [00:16:00] like, what am I doing? What was I pursuing? And to the point where you've even talked, you brought your own. Marriage and family life into it as well.

Um, maybe talk a bit about that. Like, what's been the most non work focused article that people have, you know, grabbed onto? And why do you think that is?

Khe Hy: I would say, so, when I was 21, I started to notice that I was losing my hair. And as someone, you know, like I was still like, will I find love? Like people, you know, like I hadn't cleared that hurdle yet.

I had more confidence that I wasn't going to die alone and I would have a shot at having a family, but it wasn't, it wasn't, you know, I hadn't secured the bag to quote 50 cent. And so I, it was a deep, I don't, I wouldn't say I was depressed, but I thought about the fact that I was losing my hair for two weeks.

One to five hours every day for the rest of my life, like since I turned 20 [00:17:00] and I'm 45 and I hit it. So I would, so I, you know, seven years later, I met my, my, my girlfriend, who's now my wife. And so I would do crazy stuff. Like, um, I would order Rogaine. But I wouldn't order it from Amazon because I didn't want her to like see it in the order history.

So I set up an account at walmart. com. And then when it came I would like, like I would track the package to make sure she didn't get it. Like an illicit drug or something. Yeah, exactly. And like, and then I would rip off the labels.

Bart Egnal: Oh my god.

Khe Hy: And then I would put them in the, in, I couldn't cause it was foam and I would put it in our medicine cabinet.

So it was just like this nasty, like coppery bottle that like, I was like, and I just did that for, for seven, eight years. On my 40th birthday, I'm like, I'm so sick of hiding from my hiding, right. From my wife. That I'm doing this. And so I told her on my 40th birthday, after talking with my coaches, I'm like, [00:18:00] I'm so sick of carrying this.

And I told her and she's like, yeah, duh. Like I, like I've known forever. I've known forever. Like I'm your fucking wife. Sorry for swearing. And so, but when I shared that and I've shared that, like, it is very hard for me to go to target because I know like my bullet spots right here, like my camera is set up perfectly, like people like you have great hair.

I'm like, yeah, but that's by design, like that's, that's camera placement. You're seeing the curated image. And so when I go to Target, it has the, the security camera, like on the self checkout, it's the worst angle possible. I even go to a barber, you know how some barbers show you the back of your head?

You're like, don't do that. Yeah, well, I found one that just doesn't do it and I just stuck with him forever. I love it. And so Target shows you that and I'm like, I'm like, I won't be free until I'm willing to just look into that camera and like accept myself. Right. Sure. And so I've, I've shared [00:19:00] a version of that, like different parts of that story over the years and something like that is just everyone, everyone has something about themselves that they don't like and they don't want to confront it.

And it can be physical. Oftentimes it's physical, but it doesn't have to be physical. And They understand the pain and the great lengths that one goes through to avoid having to confront it yet. At the same time, they also know by that, by avoiding the confrontation, they're still confronting it in a more subconscious way.

It's such a, it's a, to me, that is one of the most universal feelings that there's some part of you that you don't like and that you're running from.

Bart Egnal: Thanks for sharing that one. As someone who is now beginning to have, to lose my hair, my five year old the other day goes, Daddy, where is the hair on the top of your head?

Where is it going? [00:20:00]

Khe Hy: Yeah. And then we were reading, at the day later I was reading Dogman to my eight year old and five year old, and there's this garrisoned Dogman with this horrible creature called the Fair Fairy, is fired for being a terrible television host. And they're like, we're firing you because you're incompetent, nasty, ineffective, blah, blah, blah, blah.

She's like, yeah, well, and you're bald. And then everything, and then my eight year old goes, don't say that, daddy will be upset.

Bart Egnal: Yeah. Daddy's bald too. So, you know, it definitely like it hits home. And I think, you know, going back to. What makes your story so great is your willingness to put yourself in and find the human connection.

I, you know, when I read your 40 things at 40, I identified with a lot of them as a father, as a, as a entrepreneur and these kinds of things that we're told we should pursue versus what's actually happening. So you, you've obviously captured people's attention. And I think every blog that you write, every podcast that you do has stories in [00:21:00] it.

And, and, you know, I think that's something people really. Are looking to do now the world of my world world leadership communication. We've gone. We've gone towards an audience who wants more authenticity and they want more humanity and they don't want to be sold. Right? And so when you combine those three things, the ability to tell stories has become an Integral skill for leaders who wish to influence and inspire.

And yet, and yet so many stories, when I listened to stories in the business world and outside suck, like to just call it as it is, they suck. You listen, you're like, they'll be like, you know, we bought the company. And then we had a management meeting and we looked and we said, we've been doing four 50 EPS earnings per share.

I'll bet if we sharpen our pencils, we can get to six. And you know what?

Khe Hy: We did. And you're like, you know, I already was tuning out.

Bart Egnal: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was like a 30 second version. Now imagine that stretched out to like 20 minutes and you're just like, shoot me now. So I [00:22:00] wanted to ask you as someone who tells great stories. Why do you think so many stories, particularly by people in the business world, suck?

Khe Hy: I think that, well, one, and, and we had talked about this before, it was like, you know, if you're trying to buy a company, you can't be like, you know what, like, it is so hard being a balding 40 year old, like, you know, like, how do you tie that to the act of tying it?

So, but, but I do believe that one is that they, they lack emotional resonance, right? And I think that. particularly like, and you know, I'm very immersed in the world of therapy, like getting therapy. So there's not like negative and positive emotions. They do. They tell you not to use that language, but let's call it uncomfortable and comfortable and comfortable emotions, right?

So comfortable emotions being like joy and love and lightness and ease and uncomfortable emotions being shame, anger, sadness, fear. Those emotions are so [00:23:00] universal. And so if you can anchor your story to play, even the, like the fear of, you know, for example, you can have a fear of you know, like you're trying to do some transaction, right.

Right. And then. Even you can evoke the fear you have on behalf of your employees. If like the transaction doesn't go through and like you have to let go of people. Right. So, so there, there's always like business leaders have uncomfortable emotions. I think what's interesting in the business world is that you're kind of rewarded for like putting them in a, in a vault and right.

Never. And that actually, I think that works really well in Western capitalism, until it doesn't. Um, but I think that that is, works really strongly against you in the realm of storytelling. Mm hmm. I think you're, yeah, I think you're right. Because then you, you come up with just facts, like the EPS is this, and then the,

Bart Egnal: we won [00:24:00] every time.

We won every time. Exactly. I mean, it's like, we've talked sports, right? And I think one of the, the victories, Don't matter if you win every time right and it becomes you cease to have any stakes and I think stories It's the same thing to your point if you simply have the positive emotions I mean, it would be like a movie where the hero suffers no setbacks and so I think you're absolutely right.

They lack a That connection, that depth, you know, the, the rebound at the end is proportional to the depths that you have to plump. Exactly. So I think very, very well said. And there's a

Khe Hy: wonderful book on this called, um, I think it's, it's such a good book. The title is so bad because I can never remember it.

It's like a million. Yeah. A Million Years and a Thousand Days or something like that by Donald Miller. But it's a, it's a story. It's a personal story about storytelling. And it's phenomenal. Like, I highly recommend it. We will have to pick it up because we're revamping our storytelling program as we speak, so.

It's, it's [00:25:00] amazing. So, and in that, he takes, another thing that makes a story really good is conflict. Right. So like, remember I talked about that tension between the fishermen and the banker that that's a type of conflict and conflict doesn't mean like, you know, a good guy and a bad guy necessarily, but there's the conflict, like an inner conflict of like K leaving Blackrock, right?

He's a made man if he just stays and all this money is going to come his way. And if he doesn't, he's, he hit the, this blob, like there's a conflict in there. And the, the reader, the listener wants to see that conflict get resolved kind of selfishly, right? Because they want to know for themselves and if they can see themselves in the conflict, that is really, really powerful.

And so one thing that I always do is, um, Digitally, I ask people, you know, what's a question that you want me to answer? What's a challenge that you're, um, going through right now? And there's, I'm not doing anything with that. I don't even write them down, but it just gives me this, this [00:26:00] like a mental, um, mental landscape.

Of things like my daughter is going like someone said the other day is like my daughter is going to college and I'm I'm sad. I'm scared. I'm excited. And so I'm just thinking. So I see that like that's a very obviously we can all I think your kids are young like mine, but we can all relate to this and we can remember when we went to college and we can remember the excitement of the it.

The kid, and so if you can kind of bottle that up and look at that, the like series of emotions, the tension that's happening, and there's probably some, some version of that in, in, in the business world as well. Yeah. I think you're right

Bart Egnal: I think, you know, too often that, that tension is absent, right? The conflict is absent.

And so the stakes are low, right? And the stakes for us to listen are low, right? And so we really need, we need that. You know, to tap into those difficult emotions, we need to tap in to have [00:27:00] some sort of conflict, not just between the parties, but even like, for example, there's a great article you wrote, or maybe it's from the top, from the 40 at 40, about the inherent tension around your kids, right?

And, you know, the idea that, you know, Like I, mine are now in the kind of older, but not too old window where, but there's, there is tension where like, you want to be with them, you want to be with them, then you're with them. You're like, Oh, they're driving me crazy. I need a break. Right. And so how do you, how do you navigate that inherent tension?

What is enough time with them versus too much time? What is quality time versus not? And I think, you know, When you're combining that with the reliability and your own experiences, you get something really powerful.

Khe Hy: Yeah.

Bart Egnal: Yeah. And, you know, maybe that's a good transition to like, all right, here's where you get to tell people what to do.

It's always fun. So, so, you know, people listening to my pod, they're in the world of work, sometimes business and government, and they aspire to be more effective leaders. So here they're saying, all right, I want to be a better [00:28:00] storyteller. Okay. What are the, And I know I tell stories that lack conflict or lack, you know, these negative emotions or lack the humanity.

What, what are the three things that you would advise me to do to begin telling stories more effectively?

Khe Hy: Ooh, that is a great, great question. So, the first thing is I would say, you know, the first piece of advice is just Open your eyes and look. So for example, if you've ever studied principles of design, are you familiar with the rule of thirds in photography?

I am. Yes. So the rule of thirds for those who don't know is like, if the subject is in one of the three, the four thirds of the frame, your eye will naturally gravitate. And once you know the rule of thirds, like you walk into an airport and you will just look at any single ad. They're all rule of thirds.

Bart Egnal: In other words, don't put your subject in the center of the camera.

Khe Hy: Exactly. You can never [00:29:00] unsee the rule of thirds. And so that is when you look at the world through the lens of stories, stories are everywhere, right? And they can, they often can be in current events, like in the newspaper. Right. So I think a lot, I was thinking of like, what's a current event.

So Mike Tyson and Jake Paul fought on Friday night before we recorded. If you can call it a fight. Exactly. And there are so many stories that can be drawn from that. And I was thinking about this in advance for this podcast. One would be, if you listen to Mike Tyson, Talk. He just sounds like this enlightened old man, like very Zen.

So it was like, he was this like killer that did a bunch of like bad stuff in his twenties. And now he's like this enlightened old, like, like what happened? There's a classic story of like the battle between generations, right? The young, the young guy fighting the older like guy, right. David versus Goliath, or there's a natural age [00:30:00] based tension there.

So many stories of like the young person trying to take on the throne of the older one, the older person staying. Staying too long in their seat, right? That would be another framing one that Jake Paul's story of like he was a youtuber who rose rose rose and then his life Exploded crashed down and he decided to find box it exactly which I actually don't even I didn't even know that story It's a wild until that story Came on and then you know, like one that I I just to show you how funny Um, I won't take too much time on this story, but, but, um, I have been investing in Bitcoin for a while, not, I'm not a Bitcoin bro.

I don't even really care about it, but I just think it's like an interesting experiment for society. And so I've just put a little bit of money in it for a long time, which it's become a big part of my portfolio. Just, just from that. And so I was telling people, I'm like, think about it. Like my parents who are in their late seventies, me and my wife, my wife hasn't watched a sporting event in [00:31:00] 15 years and my kids, my eldest, not my little one, we all watched that three generations of people watched this, this event.

Why, right? Why did we do that? Why did my wife, who doesn't give a Anything about sports, stop her day to watch that, right? And that's just this, you know, that's the reason why I tie this, I was tying this to Bitcoin. It's like, like, there's this whole other world, like, people revere Jake Paul. My wife's like, who's Jake Paul?

Like, explain to me who he is again? Well, Jake Paul is the reason why you're watching this fight. Not Mike Tyson. Not Tyson. That's right. Um, and so my 12-year-old knows Jake Paul. Exactly right. And so I was saying, like, I was saying this to people like, Bitcoin's so stupid. I'm like, I was like, Bitcoin's a little bit like Jake Paul.

Like there's this entire world, right? That. Is like, that it's like, you ask people under the age of 30, they're like, Oh, 5 percent of my portfolio just goes to Bitcoin. [00:32:00] I'm like, what? Really? Like, who told you that? Like clearly a financial advisor is not telling you that, they can't even encourage that. But I was using the metaphor of like.

How Jake Paul brought in these different generations into this event as like, as a metaphor for crypto more, just not like pro or con, but just expand your perspective on what's happening here.

Bart Egnal: Yeah. And then stories and all. And I love that. See all the stories that are there, so many. Yeah. Okay. So

Khe Hy: that's point one

Bart Egnal: So what would be your second point?

Khe Hy: So the first one is to open the, open your, your eyes. The second would be to actually go into your own life and just like, think about all the stories. There's no story too silly. Right. Think about that time. Jimmy stole your, your, your toy truck and you bopped him on the head with your fist and you got in trouble, right?

There's no goal here, but it is a muscle [00:33:00] to practice. Right. And so, and you'll see like, and people are gonna say, well, my life's like, I'm an investment banker. I work 14 hours a day. My life's not interesting. And they're like, yeah, but what about that time when, you know, that crazy boss of yours, you know, didn't sleep for two hours, presented in front of the board and then fainted.

You're like, oh yeah, yeah, that's a crazy story. Yeah, yeah. That's a crazy story. And you don't have to, the goal isn't to, to turn that story into an actionable narrative arc yet. So that would be the, the, the other one is like, keep this list because it's like the rule of thirds. You just, you start, start to see them.

And then the last one I would say is, um, is practice telling them. Um, and so funny story, Bart, is that when I was at BlackRock, I would get like five star reviews on, on everything, like, like performance reviews, and I would get needs work, so like two or three. In a public speaking, [00:34:00] and I was a very bad public speaker, I would say, um, I would use crutch words a lot.

I didn't present with confidence. I definitely didn't know. You found the hump figure being? Exactly. Yes. I didn't know a thing about like storytelling. Right, right. And so. Just over time, right? I've written, I just practice the muscle. So for me, practicing the muscle started with, um, with, um, writing blog posts, and then it evolved into podcasting and YouTubing.

And then actually now there's a new way that it's evolving for me. Is to, um, is through Tik TOK. Cause it's a very different type of search. Interesting. So you're on very concise. I'm on, I'm on Tik TOK and Tik TOK and I'm having. Some of the most powerful stories that I have are the ones with the most emotional resonance, which it shouldn't be surprising.

Bart Egnal: well, I think it's a great third point, which is, and I'll just extend it and say it's proof that storytelling is not an innate skill or quality. It's one that can be intentionally [00:35:00] developed and built. Absolutely. You know, it has to be done with practice. It has to mine your, you got to mine your own personal experiences and then you also have to really embed this.

Kind of conflict, emotional resonance, and just keep going until you get green at it.

Khe Hy: Yeah, and the thing is that it's really fun. It is. Right? It's really fun because it's an art form that's accessible to everyone.

Bart Egnal: Mm hmm. It's spoken word. On Friday, I'm going to be at a high school teaching them storytelling.

And we're going to do Storytelling improv, we're going to do, you know, personal stories it's going to be great. I'm smiling just thinking about it.

Khe Hy: I love it, love it. And then I'll also add, I mean, just, just having a diverse source of inputs, like where you consume information from. Right. So, um, I actually don't read a lot of nonfiction.

I read a lot of fiction. Um, and I think that probably has indirectly [00:36:00] helped me become a better storyteller. Yeah. Because if you think about these great works of fiction, I just read, um, Anna Karenina and that, I mean, talk about, I think, what is it? Like the first sentence is. All families are screwed up, but every family is screwed up in its own unique way.

Something like, I didn't say it exactly right. Yeah, I know. It's a great quote. What a, I mean, God dang. I mean, talk about a universal truth. Perfect for the therapy mindset too. Exactly. I mean, that book is just so And then you start to see there's the lover, and there's this and that, and you know, there's the son, the mother who has to choose between her lover and her son, right?

Like, think about the tension there, there's the society, you know, society says that like, women can't have affairs in that point, you know, so there's the societal tension, there's so much tension in that book, I tell you, that's a 900 page book that I read it like it was, it was Harry Potter.

Bart Egnal: And I think you're right, story, I mean, well look, humans are storytelling animals, right?

And that's how we've [00:37:00] passed, we've, you know, passed on history, culture, expertise, and so, People want us to tell stories and I think it is a skill you've proven that you can go from getting needs work in BlackRock to becoming essentially a professional storyteller across multiple platforms.

Khe Hy: Yeah, it's funny because I was asked to give a TED talk.

Thank you. I was asked to give a TED talk to Wharton students, so they're 19 year olds, but they kind of, they actually found me on TikTok. And so, you know, they want to go down the track of Wall Street. So right away, I'm, I'm thinking, what are the tensions that they're feeling at the moment? Right. What are their dreams?

What do they think their dreams are? What are their actual dreams? So I'm really kind of putting myself in the shoes of a 19 year old kind of wants to be on wall street, mostly men. And then once I have that covered, then I'm like, what are the best stories? And I just start brainstorming. You know, [00:38:00] Jake Paul, Mike Tyson.

Is there a story there, you know, stories from my own life, anything that I've read? I don't, I don't actually, a lot of people take notes of stories. I don't, I don't do that. I'm, I'm, I don't like taking notes a lot, by the way, chat GPT. I asked chat GPT, like what are, what are great parables in history about.

Youth and the dreams they think they want versus what they actually want

Bart Egnal: I totally think there's a, I know we're workshopping this, but you should do the Jake Paul story, you know, because Jake Paul thought he wanted to be a YouTuber. Yeah, just like you thought you want to be investment banker and he moved to, you know, he and his brother, they moved to, I think they moved to LA and LA fun house.

Yeah, incredibly successful in some respects. Yeah, but he had like a breakdown and engaged in all sorts of behaviors that were probably driven by the pressures and demands of that career. Yeah, yeah. And then he just checked out. And decides to become a boxer and, you know, kind of has [00:39:00] built himself a second career.

So there's real comparisons. I mean, you can I love that. I'm on it. What do Jake Paul, what do Jake YouTubers and investment bankers have in common? And that's, that's, you, you're showing such a great point. Because I had analyzed all these stories about that fight. But The one that I didn't even really, I knew he had like a drinking problem, but that's about, that's about all I knew about, like, I know all about like his like tactical YouTube side and the business moves he's done and all that.

And so I'm like, Oh, I gotta go, I gotta go, I gotta go read it, read up on that. Another, I know I can rally so much on this, but like, if you go, um, profiles of, Famous people also tend to be very rich in stories. Like I think about the depression that Michael Phelps went through, you know, you could, there's a lot of stories of, um, or Andre Agassi, what he went through.

Bart Egnal: Exactly. That biography is one of my favorites. I just read Will Smith's biography. Incredible story. I mean, I love, you know, he [00:40:00] says when I was. I became rich. I lost the belief that becoming rich would cure what was wrong with me. Yeah, yeah. It was a real, a real shock, so. Powerful, so yeah. We could talk stories all day.

I, I just so appreciate you coming on the pod. I think, you know, what I'm taking away, what I hope everyone listening is taking away is that You know, storytelling is a skill. It's one, there's so many bad stories out there, but they don't have to be. You can build great stories if you can connect to that emotional resonance, connect to conflict, bring yourself in and recognize there's stories all around you.

So. I really you've been a great guest and I appreciate you sharing your wisdom.

Khe Hy: Thank you so much, Bart. It's been a true pleasure. And it's not a topic I get, I talk about often. So even more exciting for me.

Bart Egnal: Look, people are going to want to consume what you're cooking out. Yes. Where should they connect with you?

Khe Hy: So the main, main hub of everything is RadReads.co and then join our newsletter, which is still, still [00:41:00] going. And then the podcast, the examine life podcast, which is a weekly podcast where we examine one of life's thorny questions where we did a podcast and on YouTube as well. And I'm most active on TikTok, but I'm on every social media platform. If you just look up Khe.

Bart Egnal: And your content's great. So I encourage everyone listening to check you out. Thanks so much for coming on the pod. Thank you.

I hope you enjoyed that episode of the inspired podcast and the conversation that I had with our guests, and hopefully you left with some really practical, tangible tools and tips that you can use to be more consistently inspirational. If you're enjoying the pod. I'll ask you a favor, please rate and review it.

I love the comments, appreciate the reviews and the visibility allows others to discover the pot. It's really how word of mouth has spread the Inspire [00:42:00] podcast to so many listeners and helped us keep making this great content, stay tuned. We'll be back in two weeks with another inspiring conversation.

Thanks so much for listening. Go forth and inspire.