In this episode, Bart speaks with journalist Amy Shoenthal about her new book, The Setback Cycle. Amy explains how setbacks aren't always fuel for success, why not everything "happens for a reason" and the real lessons to take when you're in the middle of a difficult period in life or career. She shares her four-part setback cycle (Establish, Embrace, Explore, Emerge) and explains how it can be a mental framework to process and move past these periods. Amy's insights and anecdotes make her cycle a compelling and worthwhile listen for anyone who may be feeling stuck.
Get your copy of The Setback Cycle here and learn more about Amy and her company at their website and Instagram.
1:17 Introducing Amy
1:59 What led you to write this book?
2:35 Noticed how setbacks were key to people's narratives
3:46 Bart talks about the book
4:13 Grit and resilience
5:16 Amy hates the phrase "Everything happens for a reason"
6:04 Not here to tell you your next setback is awesome
7:05 It's important to have a sense that you can get through a setback
7:54 Growth happens
9:00 What we can learn from babies
9:36 The 4 cycles
10:01 Phase 1: Establish
10:47 Phase 2: Embrace
12:09 Phase 3: Explore
13:25 Phase 4: Emerge
14:19 Bart asks for an example of an "Establish" experience
15:34 How to know you're in a setback
16:03 Two key questions
17:52 How to do the 'embrace' phase right...
18:13 Working through the stress response
19:25 Collecting information about the setback
20:35 Amy wasn't aware of her setback
22:01 Joke - maybe we should just identify as our hobbies
23:16 Amy's story of shifting to journalism
25:59 What's the "explore" phase like?
26:27 Learning about your transferable skills and your superpowers
27:20 Finding ways to energize yourself
27:50 Journaling practice
29:21 In real life these phases can run concurrently
31:11 The last phase: Emerge
32:33 Baby steps forward
33:39 Bart shares story of his wife's career switch
35:14 The story of the genesis of her book
37:17 Bart tells dad anecdote
38:36 Where can people go to find out more
39:10 Thank yous
